Blind Internet Marketer Doing 7 Figures

Hi Everyone,

I an very excited to have a superb interview today to kick our interviews for 2010.

But first I have to admit, I have struggled a bit with this post – to come up with a Title that truly reflects the remarkable person that Matt Wadsworth is.

I mean, this is a guy who:

1) Is Blind and who is now doing 7 Figures after only being actively online for less than 2 years
2) An Internationally Acclaimed Muscician
3) Lives life to the FULL – example – Matt has just taken up Downhill Skiing!

I first met Matt at Yanik Silvers Underground Online Seminar last year. I was impressed, but frankly at that time, I did not fully appreciate just how impressed I should have been!

My Dad (Barry Dunlop) and I had the pleasure to hand out with Matt a couple of weeks ago (and enjoy a Steak at the Ruth Chris restaurant) when we were in Washington DC attending Yanik Silvers Mastermind Meeting. When I heard what Matt is doing now, I just knew we had to interview him for this site. I mean anyone who goes to 7 Figures (in a most unusual marketplace) in less than 2 years would get your attention, wouldn’t it?

Indeed, Yanik Silver is so impressed that Matt is one of his Underground Speakers at this years: Underground Online Seminar

There are lots of Gold Nuggets in this interview – but the one that really made me perk up and listen was when Matt said:

Never wait for anyone else to give you a solution

Enjoy the interview (Podcast and Transcript) — I look forward to your comments

To Our Success

Michael

PS: I am also grateful to Barry Dunlop for popping on the call last week when I was not available to do this interview with Matt. Thanks Matt, Thanks Dad.

Matt Wadsworth Interview

Barry Dunlop: Hi there, folks. This is Barry Dunlop at incomediary.com. Today I have a very special and unique individual on the call with me, possibly one of the most interesting Internet marketers I’ve ever come across in my life. The name of the gentleman is Matthew Wadsworth.

Matthew, is an internationally acclaimed lute player. You’d better Google “lute” like I had to in order to know what a lute is. But he’s at the top of the game. But not only that, he is at the top of that Internet Marketing game. In fact, Yanik Silver has got Matthew as one of his Underground people that’s going to be presenting at this year’s Underground Online Seminar in Washington, DC.

In addition Matthew also happens to be blind. So I have got a blind, internationally acclaimed lute player who’s at the top of the Internet marketing industry. A remarkable individual who it’s been my pleasure to get to know, especially over the last 12 months.

And I believe you’re on the line there, Matthew. Are you there, Matthew?

Matthew Wadsworth:  I am, indeed. Hey, Barry. How are you?

Barry: I’m very well, Matthew. Listen, I know you’re a busy guy, and I really appreciate you taking the time out to have a little chat with us. I know that people ask all the usual questions first, about your professional career and obviously about the fact that you’re blind. I understand you were blind from birth, is that correct?

Matthew: Yeah, that’s right. I’m 35, and I was born blind. So, in a way, I’ve never had to get used to anything else. I suppose one could see these things as an obstacle in life, but I would really attribute being blind to a lot of my success, both as a musician and in Internet marketing. And I guess we’ll come on to some of the reasons why, but I do think, if you have to make more of an effort and you have to struggle a bit more, and you’re prepared to go through those struggles, then that’s really one of the things that takes you far, in whatever you might put that to.

Barry: Spot on, Matthew. Absolutely. In fact, actually, I think it was Yanik Silver who said to me something like, “Well, I’m working on the basis, if Matthew gets up on the stage and says:

Look, this is me. I’m blind, and I’m making money online. Why aren’t you?

And I know from having spoken to you that the blind, that’s not really a big issue to you. It’s to us, the people who can see, that it’s a big issue, but to you, it was normal for you from day one. And because of that, you’ve obviously had to do things other people haven’t had to do. But in actual fact, you see that as a benefit, or as a plus. [laughs] Every time I speak to you, I used to think I was a positive guy till I met you,
Matthew. You’re a very positive individual.

Matthew: Oh. That’s very kind of you. I don’t see obstacles as a problem. I see them as challenges. And we all have challenges that we’ve got to, first of all, face, and then overcome.

And I think one of the amazing things about the world, bringing it back to the Internet marketing space, is that there are many, many ways to do things. I think people, they make things too complicated sometimes, and they won’t do something until they’ve got the perfect way, or what they think is the perfect way. And the fact is that there is no perfect way. It’s a question of just having the courage to get out there and do things.

I did a similar thing. We were chatting about this before we started recording, but I’ve been doing some skiing lately, and doing some downhill skiing. And I was rubbish. I mean, I’m falling over, going the wrong way, couldn’t turn. But I just kept doing it, kept trying and trying different ways. And I had someone skiing with me, and we tried different things: having someone ski behind me, someone ski beside me.

So I’ve never waited for someone to give me a solution because, as I was growing up, people were just always saying, “Oh, well, you’re blind. You can’t do this. You can’t do that.” I suppose I’ve always been strong minded, but I was like, “Hold on a minute. I will call the shots. I’ll tell you what I can and can’t do. Don’t impose that on me.” And I’ve sort of taken that with me all the way through life.
So, basically, I never listen to anybody unless they’re telling me I can do something which I didn’t think I could do. But if it’s the other way around, it’s like, “Well, sorry, but leave me alone.”

Barry: Matthew, well, you haven’t stolen, but this is one of the things I was going to talk about, the fact that when I heard that you were learning to ski, I thought, “This is a joke. Somebody’s trying to take advantage of Barry here.” But in actual fact, I know it’s a fact that you are learning to ski, and it’s really just a sign of my own ignorance that I didn’t think that that was something you could do.

But when I spoke to you, I love that, when you say you never wait for anyone else to give you a solution. So you’ve been experimenting with somebody beside you, somebody behind you, somebody in front. [laughs] I just think that’s so remarkable.

I will ask one question which I do know people will ask. You’re blind. You’re on the Internet. Just briefly explain, how can you read the page? Because I know how you do it. This is how technology’s moved on and how software works these days. But just briefly tell us how you’re able to make sense of what’s on a web page.

Matthew: I use a normal PC computer. And I have one particular piece of software. It’s known as a screen reader. Basically, it takes the information, which goes to the video card, which then sends the information to your screen. It takes that information and it turns it into speech, into an audio representation.

And so I don’t use the mouse. I move around with the tab and the arrow keys and keyboard shortcuts. And it’s an incredible thing. Probably, if I’m reading a document or an ebook or something, I can read about 200 pages an hour. And no one can understand what this thing says. It just says [makes garbled sounds]. But I get the information.

And in a way, the Internet has leveled the playing field. It’s opened so many doors and given me access to so many possibilities, and that’s what really kind of got me into doing business and using the Internet as the medium of delivery, if you like. I mean, business is business, and it’s been that way for hundreds of years. So the Internet is just a medium which we use.

I think what I see as an advantage, and I perhaps wouldn’t have seen this a couple of years ago when I started, it is that there are many things that I can’t do. There’s software programs I can’t access. There are websites I can’t access for doing research.

So, basically, what I do is I research processes and I understand that process and I get it very clear in my head, and then I’ve built up a team of people around me who can implement it for me. So I say, “Right, this is what we’re going to do. This is the aim. This is the end result. Here’s where we’re starting a problem. Here are all the pieces.” And then we put it together.

So, in a sense, that is outsourcing, but that’s a much?misunderstood term, because people say, “Oh yeah, I’ve got to outsource everything.” But you’ve really got to know what you want people to do. You can’t expect someone to build a business for you. You’ve got to have that inner vision and drive to see it through. And in order to have that, you’ve got to understand the process. It forced me to look at what I was good at. And I think everyone needs to do this. You mustn’t be trying to do everything.

So, basically, I can strike off things like graphic design. I mean, no chance. I can’t see it. So someone else is doing that. Someone building websites, I don’t want to do that. I outsource all the things that I either can’t do or I’m bad at or I don’t want to do, and then I concentrate on being creative, coming up with ideas, and forging joint venture relationships and all that stuff that I can do.

And this is what I do. I’ve got a few people who I coach now. And straight away, I sit down with them and say, “Right, what are you good at?” And if you’re good at something, and most people are, I say, “Well, how did you get good at thing? What did you do? If you were teaching someone how to do it, what would you teach them?” And then you kind of reverse engineer that process and just apply it to something different, like building a business.

Barry: Absolutely. That’s very impressive, Matthew. Actually, I think it’s something everybody should be doing. You were forced into doing it, in some respects, this outsourcing, as you described it, because you were blind. But of course, it’s a fact for everybody. You do what you’re good at, and you outsource the rest. Something which I happen to know, actually, Matthew, is that you’re a relatively newcomer, actually, to Internet marketing. Did you tell me it was something like late 2007 you first started online? Or maybe I think it was even 2008 before you got serious. So why don’t you sort of take us through the time line there and tell us, actually? Because I think this is something else that’s going to be interesting to people, the marketplace you went into, because I know it’s a very competitive marketplace you went into, and what kind of money you’ve been able to make and so on and so forth. That would be great.

Matthew: Sure. The reason I went into that market is because I’d reached a sort of point in my music career and I can’t remember how many CDs I had out at that time. It was definitely about four or five. Played all over the world and yet was still making 20,000, 25,000 UK Pounds a year, which is about what you can make as a musician, really.

And I saw it becoming more difficult to sell CD’s, and budgets were being cut with concert venues and, you know, I really predicted that well because now it’s quite a mess, really, the music industry. And I still do what I love, which is going around playing the lute and doing all sorts of other things. So my motivation was, “OK, I want to find a way of earning money, which I can manage from anywhere in the world, ” so as long as I’ve got a laptop, you know, I can keep on top of things. And you know, I saw that people were making money online and I never thought, really… I never thought of myself as running a business, but I just started looking at things and it kind of made sense.

And so it was in November of 2007, so just over two years ago, I went to the World Internet Summit in London. I’d already, prior to that, just a month before, I’d bought this course, it’s called the 20/20 Challenge, and I’m really happy to credit that course for getting me started. And I just followed it through, just get some PLR (Private label rights), then write material and put a website together. Find some JV partners and research a market. And I did it, just followed it, and I didn’t care if I made any money or not, I just wanted to see what I could do, what I was good at, how difficult it was. Didn’t care if I failed or not. And then I went to the World Internet Summit and I just thought, “This is so possible, it’s unbelievable, ” and again it really cemented it in my head that I was going to do whatever it took to make this happen. I could feel it.

And I’m fortunate that I’ve got an amazing girlfriend who’s very trusting and supportive and she was like, “Well, yeah, go for it. Nothing to lose.” And so that was then, that was sort of November 2007. And I invented a system for horse racing, and I will pre-qualify that by saying that I have no interest in horse racing itself. But I do have an interest in numbers. I’m pretty good with numbers and I was actually primarily wanting to go into the FOREX market, but it’s a pretty visual environment with the charts and panel sticks and all that kind of thing. So again, I just thought, right, “What am I good at? How can I use what I’ve got?”

And there were a couple of websites that were very accessible, full of statistics, and I’d already seen people kind of losing the horse racing and I looked at why that was and coming back to this thing of not waiting for someone to give you a solution, I just thought, “Well, I’ll try and invent my own system.” And so I did and then I got some people, six or seven beta testers, to try it out. And this is a strategy now that I’ve used over and over again in totally different markets. But firstly I approached the top authority site in the UK horse racing niche and I wrote an article for them and just built up the relationship
.
And then I said, “Look, you know, I’ve got this system. Can we get some people testing this?” So we got some of their members testing it out.
And then they interviewed me so we already kind of had a buzz going. This was in February 2008. And I launched the system, I brought it to the market in May 2008 and I gave them an exclusive, this authority site, for three weeks. And so I had nothing, I had no list. Yeah, I had my product that I’d created. And I just gave them this interview….I did an interview, gave them the exclusive and you know, did over $10, 000 in that first month. And then because I’d given them an exclusive, all the JV people, all the other system sellers heard about it, so they were kind of knocking on my door, saying, “Hey, can we promote your system? We’ve heard really good things about it.” So I don’t know how many clients I’ve got now. It’s probably over 150.

Barry Dunlop:  Wow.

Matthew: And a few months ago, I launched another system and that’s going amazingly.
And I automate these things, so I haven’t got someone… Or rather, my customers asked me if it could be automated, so I found someone who writes what are called ‘bots’, like robots, like a computer program that does everything for you.

And it’s… You know, I’ve just surveyed my list over and over again, asking them what they want, what they struggle with, and then I solve those problems, because it’s something I love to do. I mean, I’ve solved my own problems all my life and it’s really nice to do that for other people, and make some money out of it.

Barry Dunlop:  Yes. I think the angle there is you say never wait for anybody to give you a solution, but you go out and provide a solution to the marketplace.

Matthew:  Yeah, and I love doing that and the money doesn’t come first. It’s like, right, what problems can I solve? If I keep bringing value to the marketplace then, I mean, you have to try quite hard not to make money, if you’re really bringing something that people need or want. So then I’ve done that in other markets and it’s spread my risk and portfolio. And you asked how much money I’ve made and I’ve done OK. I’m kind of up to the seven figure a year mark now.

Barry Dunlop: Wow. Wow, wow.

Matthew: That’s dollars. That’s dollars.

Barry Dunlop: I’d take it, Matthew. I’d take it. When you say seven figures, that is amazing. Well done. I mean, I was going to suggest it was six figures, because I already knew last year you were heading high six figures, so that’s a remarkable achievement.

Matthew: Yeah, it’s… I mean, I’ve really learnt where the leverage points are and you know, obviously, trying to earn more money for certain things and learning that it’s OK to do that. And yeah, I’m quite shocked at how fast it’s gone. But I think of it, not just from a financial point of view, but it’s… I don’t know, just trying to do something good and I like helping other people out, providing that they want to help themselves.

Barry Dunlop: OK, well, well done. Well done. I want to… I know your time is precious, Matthew, so I just wanted to ask, because I know what a lot of people would be asking is, well, you know, probably like me, they’re a bit dumbstruck at the moment. They’re thinking, “Wow, this guy, he speaks such a lot of sense.” But imagine that there’s a first?timer, an absolute newbie, or a new person starting online for the first time. And it isn’t that long ago that you started. I mean, is there any particular strategies that you’d advise, or indeed, is there anything in particular you’d advise them not to do you know, that they could take away today maybe would help them on their journey?

Because one of the things I’ve discovered is that there’s a tremendous amount of frustration. In other words, people, they buy this course or they try this or they do the other thing, and somehow it doesn’t work out, so any rock solid things you can hang your sort of hat on there, Matthew?

Matthew: Well, I think a huge thing is mindset, and it’s something that people are starting to talk about a little bit in the IM game, and you’ve got to remember the Internet, and Internet marketing is a very young business.

And you know, it’s such a huge thing, just the way you think. And I’d attribute that to…I don’t know what percentage of where I’ve got in my journey. It’s always started with having this idea of believing that I can do it. And so I think a really big thing. I mean, if you can take this and understand it and apply it, then this is going to be really huge. It’s that you have to put the responsibility for what you want to do and what you want to achieve, you’ve got to put that responsibility on your own shoulders. So you have say to yourself, “Right, this what I want to do. I am going to make it happen. I am going to do whatever it takes to make this happen and it’s my responsibility. It’s not the responsibility of the course that I just paid $500 for.”

I mean, yes, you buy a course, it should deliver what it’s promised, but it’s up to you to make it happen and if you don’t know how it works, find someone, ask them. Never be afraid to ask, and ask good questions. And the other thing I would say is, I mean, I just do this all the time, you know, if you want to learn something, find someone who’s doing it and see if they’ll teach you or see if you can pay them or whatever. You know, if you wanted to learn skiing, you’d go and find a teacher, probably, and you might try it, and then, you think, well, I’ll go and learn some lessons. And why should that be different in a business?

And I mean, you know, people don’t often say this, but I will say it because I think it’s better to say the truth: you know, you read sales pages, and it’s, anyone can do this, and blah, blah, blah. Well, I don’t think anyone can do it. And I think, you know, in the western world and in the society we live, I think we have the opportunity to do it, you know, we’re free to do what we want and forge our own path, but can anyone do it, well, I’m not sure because it is hard. It takes a huge amount of determination and, you know, you’ve got to not give up. So I’m not saying, it’s nothing to do with education or having a kind of rocket science degree or anything like that, I mean, there’s so many different kinds of people making money online, but it’s definitely, you know, a certain type of person. It’s a bit like saying can anyone be an athlete or a musician? I mean, probably not. So yeah, I’m not trying to be negative in that, but you know, if you’re determined and you won’t give up and you’ve got a vision, then great, then that’s that, that’s what it takes.

Barry: OK. I think that is the key to it, actually. If you’ve got a vision and you won’t give up, it’s like a recipe, really. It’s really almost impossible to fail. The challenges, of course, are most people give up, which is why, of course, as you say, not everybody can, because if you’re somebody who’s going to give up, it’s like you’re learning to ski and you fall down and keep falling down, and you might eventually give up, but you’re never going to learn to ski without falling down. And you’re never going to learn to have any kind of business that’s successful without making some mistakes along the way as well.

Matthew: Yeah. I think, you know, at school we’re sort of taught that it’s wrong and very bad to fail. And, I mean, basically if you allow yourself to fail, then you can’t fail, because you’ve allowed yourself to do it. And, you know, you just keep going, do something, learn from it, carry on, and eventually you get there.

You know, it’s a bit like learning to cook. I mean, you might read the recipe and then try and it’s all burnt and horrible, but then you try again and then it’s a bit better, and eventually, you get there. I think people over complicate this whole thing, and it doesn’t need to be that way. Just focus a bit. Here’s my great advice, is focus on one thing.

Decide what you’re going to do and then forget whether it works or not, just do it, see it through. And, you know, that’s going to get you further than waiting to buy the right course and the right tools and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Barry: This is very, very impressive, Matthew. I am, and I know the people listening to this or reading the transcript will be equally impressed, because you’re living proof that if you focus and you really do do that, then, you know, just look what’s possible, you know, it’s a seven?figure income after 12 months or, sorry, just after two years. It’s an amazing achievement, and you’ve obviously, you know, you richly deserve it. I’m going to have to ask the question, because I’m a big fan of Mindset and I recognized how important that has been in my own life. I suspect with you, you’ve probably, you’ve just evolved into this mindset, but did you have any teachers? Did you have any mentors along the way, or anybody in particular that influenced you, a schoolteacher or a book you read or anything like that? Not that you, you know…

Matthew: Yeah, interesting.

Barry: Anything in particular you want to give credit to?

Matthew:  Yeah, probably lots of people. I mean, I think a lot of it has come, I hesitate to use the word naturally, you know. A lot of people follow Tony Robbins, that kind of stuff, and he is amazing, I haven’t read his stuff, to be honest, but I… Let’s see, I mean, my father definitely had a huge influence on me as I was growing up. And you know, like I said, the big people saying, well, he can’t do this, and he can’t do that, and before I could fight my own battles, he was like, well, yes he can, and you’re going to watch him do it. I learned that from a very young age, that people project their fears onto you. So if you’re trying to start a business and your partner says oh, don’t do that, you know, it’s dangerous, and someone will rip you off, and I’ve heard bad things about it. And I mean, it’s usually because people care about us, and they’re scared, and they don’t want any harm to come to us, you know. So yeah, definitely my dad, and then another great person is the headmaster of my secondary school who’s called Mike Evans. And you know, just these are all things you learn afterwards. He was such a brilliant leader and I, you know, remember so much of how he ran that school. It’s a multiracial school with every religion and race under the sun in Moss Side in Manchester. And it was just such an impressive operation. And I really learned at that school to communicate with people and to get the best out of people and realized that, you know, everyone’s different and everyone’s got qualities.

And then probably in the Internet marketing space, there’s been all sorts of people that I really have had the privilege to get to know, but I got to know them because I took action. And I didn’t ask them to give me anything, I kind of brought value to the table. And so, you know, definitely yeah, Matt Bacak, definitely Yanik Silver, Ryan Deiss, I mean, yeah, loads of people, really, just have been an inspiration.

Barry:  Wonderful. Indeed. I mean, well, I think you’re the inspiration today, Matthew, and I think it’s a tremendous lesson here. I mean, I’ve just been looking at the timer and we’ve actually done 25 minutes, which I think we allocated around 20 minutes. I mean, I would like to ask you a couple more quick questions, with your permission. First – do you have any predictions for the future of the Internet? How do you, you know, you’ve obviously benefited tremendously from technology yourself, if… A lot of people say to me, well, Barry, that’s already been done, you know, like somebody said to you, well, UK horse racing has already been done, but you found a different way to do UK horse racing and make money out of it. Do you have any predictions for the future or anything like that you’d want to make? I mean, Mindset is everything, so I imagine as long as Mindset’s fine, the future’s always fine.

Matthew: Yeah.

Barry: But do you have anything to add to that?

Matthew: Well, I think it will just become more and more mature, you know, formal. People will buy things online. And I just see the Internet as a medium. You know, before we had this, I mean, people still did business, you know, it’s not suddenly started in the last 10 years. So it’s just knowing how to use this fantastic tool that we’ve got and this thing that gets better and better all the time.
I mean, the markets I go into, it’s really very simple, I go into evergreen markets. So that’s the ones that are not going to go anywhere, you know, that I think will be around for a long time.

Barry: That’s a good tip, that’s a good tip.

Matthew: They kind of, you know, there is more effort to get into those markets, but I go for longevity, so I don’t mind if I have to work like a dog for 12 months to be in there for 10 years. So I go for evergreen markets, I go for things that can be automated and systemized, and I usually go for things that have an element of continuity to them, you know, like monthly memberships or software that I can charge monthly stuff for. So because I’m in the business to, you know, I don’t want to be working 15 hours a day, I wanted freedom, I wanted to be able to go around and still play the loops and do skiing and have a nice life, and now I’ve got that, yeah, I’m trying to kind of teach a lot of people how to do it and just, you know, bring some value to the marketplace.

I go for evergreen markets, I go for things that can be automated and systemized

I don’t actually have an IM product of my own, I mean, there are hands outstretched from, you know, all sorts of people saying that we’ll promote for you that I first want to find out what people want, and I’ll see if I’ve got something useful to bring to the table. I don’t just want to come in and crank something out and make money, I’d rather, you know, bring some value to the market.

Barry:  My prediction, I will make one, Matt, is when you bring something to the market, it will answer a lot of questions for a lot of people and it will be the must have product, because I know just in my… your brain things so differently to so many of us, you know, that it’s about, you know, evergreen, I love that, can be automated, I love that, has an element of continuity to it. These are just sound business practices, and there’s a tremendous amount to be learned there.

Thank you Matt — we really appreciate your time and your wisdom.

Matt’s Websites:
The Phenomenon Horse Race Betting System
Matt Wadsworth Marketing Blog
Matthew Wadsworth – Lutenist

Hi Everyone

Today’s interview / podcast features Sean Stephenson, a remarkable gentleman that my father, Barry Dunlop met in Necker Island along with Sir Richard Branson.

Sean has written Get Off Your But a book which I have just completed reading this week.

This is I believe the most inspiring and motivating interview we have ever done. This is not an interview about how to make more money, it is an interview about something far more important – How to live a happier, more productive, more rewarding life.

We all live busy lives but do yourself a favor – listen to this Podcast in its entirety or read the transcription completely – I am confident you will be inspired in a way that many of us will have not experienced before. You will also learn some of the remarkable distinctions made by a truly remarkable human being.

Thank you Sean for a Great Interview

Podcast Transcript:

Barry Dunlop: This is Barry Dunlop at IncomeDiary.com. Michael’s not online this evening, actually, but I am and I have a very, very special guest this evening. It’s Sean C. Stephenson. Now, you’re going to hear a lot more about Sean, both from me and from Michael and right across the world because Sean is one of the most remarkable human beings I’ve ever met in my life.

I was very fortunate recently, I happened to go to Necker Island — that’s Sir Richard Branson’s private island — and I got to meet Sean for the first time and Sean just blew me away. I can’t really explain it because… The reason I can’t explain this is because there’s something about Sean that I’ve never witnessed before and I would only use the word “energy”. I don’t want to sound too “mumbo-bumbo” or anything like that but it was energy. I completely went for his energy straight away and within moments Sean was giving me his book — signed, autographed — “Get Off Your ‘But’”. That’s b-u-t not b-u-t-t: “Get Off Your ‘But’”.

Sean Stephenson gets Sir Richard Branson of his But!

It’s got an amazing foreword by Anthony Robbins — and it’s about how to end self-sabotage and stand up for yourself. Everywhere I look, Sean, you seem to be known by the rich and famous everywhere. I see that President Clinton has said lovely things about you and I just look around the whole place and I think to myself: “Who does this guy not know?”

But what I would like you to do, if you can, because I have the benefit this evening of being able to watch you on video: just introduce yourself. Who you are, tell us just the shortened version of the “Life of Sean”.

Sean Stephenson: Well Barry, thank you for having me on the program. I was born with a magical life. When I was born I came into the world with a condition called “osteogenesis imperfecta” — also translates into brittle-bone disorder — so when I came out basically every bone in my body was crushed from just the process of birth and they were pretty certain that I was going to die within the first 24 hours of my life.

Barry: Wow!

Sean: So my parents were told to grieve on the day that they were supposed to be celebrating. They were told to grieve for one of two things: either the loss of their baby or the loss of a normal baby, because they weren’t going to have a normal baby. They told them at birth I had a rare condition that, if I even got to live, my bones would fracture for little or no apparent reason and I would be stunted in growth and be of short stature my entire life, if I even got to live. So, that’s a lot to put on a human being, especially when they’re supposed to be celebrating and so my parents made a decision at a very critical period of their life: that this condition was not going to consume my life, it was not going to take me out of this world and if there was anything they could do to expose me to the world in a positive, uplifting, human manner they would. And they have!

Barry: Wow!

Sean: My parents have an amazing marriage, they have been the best role models that a human being could ever ask for and they are some of my closest friends as well as being my parental figures. They raised me and my sister, who does not have my condition — she’s two years older than me — they raised us with the mentality that anything was possible. So I went on to live a great childhood amidst all the physical pain… And I incurred a lot in my first 18 years of my life, Barry. I fractured my bones over 200 times.

Barry: 200 times…

Sean: Yeah. Something as simple as sneezing would fracture a rib or a collarbone. If you can imagine… You know, most people get one broken bone in their whole life, if at all, and it hurts just as much for me as it would for you except I have to experience it on repeat occasions. I also had numerous surgeries to try to straighten my legs and all the surgeries failed because my body rejected the procedures. I spent my whole life using a wheelchair for mobility. Some people say I’ve been confined to a wheelchair, I disagree: I think I’ve been given freedom by my wheelchair. I’m only about three feet tall because it causes the bones to be extremely stunted in growth. So here I am, three feet tall, just turned 30 years old so the doctor’s prediction was certainly wrong — thank God! — and I use a wheelchair to get around and I have assistants that help me get in and out of vehicles and help me with everyday, ordinary thinks like showering, toileting… All those things I can do but I need help to do.

All the organs that are in my body are normal sized and in normal operation. I can have children, I have feeling in all my body and I live a great life. I often say I live the life of a rock star because I travel the world. I’ve been to practically every state here in the US. I’ve been going on, I think about eight countries that I’ve been in. I’m picking up three more this month and I am somebody who has made the most of his time. I’ve become an author four times over. I’ve written four books. I’ve filmed a fitness video with Miss Fitness Universe and I can’t lie: I liked that one.

Barry: [chuckles]

Sean: I’ve got an amazing social life with a group of friends called the Sean-tourage. I didn’t come out with that arrogant moniker, that was an individual who dubbed the name of those that hang out with me as the Sean-tourage. Now in my life I’m a Board Certified Therapist. We can talk about how I got into that. I have a speaking career that I’ve had going on for 13 years now, traveling the world speaking at companies and schools about this concept of ending self-sabotage and I have an amazing dating life. You know, I go to bed every night wishing I didn’t have to dream because my life is more exciting than my dreams.

Abby Moneyhun, Sean Stephenson & Barry Dunlop Relaxing In Necker Island

Barry: Wow! Well… [laughs] There is so much you’ve said there Sean that I would like to talk about. I mean, the one thing that I found most remarkable about you, in fact, actually it’s in your book. It says: “Watch out what you say to yourself.” Now, I’ve been listening to you there and you’ve said things which really you wouldn’t expect somebody in what most people would consider your condition or your situation to be saying things like these. Like you said, used that word right at the beginning: magical life. That wouldn’t be the word that most people would have used and if you use words like “the freedom from your wheelchair” you clearly look at things almost like — can I dare to suggest this? — the opposite to just about most people. So, what made the change? When did the change happen? When did you suddenly decide to look at things differently or where you — I don’t believe you were, but… — born that way? You just were a positive individual to start with? I can’t believe you did, I mean, there must have been some learned behavior, something that came along a made a difference.

Sean: Well, it’s a hybrid really. It’s probably the number one question I get on this planet, is: “Have I always been this way. Personality-wise?” It’s a hybrid answer because it’s… You know, when you’re raised in an environment that is just so positive and loving, that has a great impact on you and I had that to start. I know that’s not something that everybody gets, so I was fortunate. So, a good part of my attitude we can’t discount came built in because of my parents and my sister and my extended family raising me. That’s at least 50 percent of the equation. The other 50 percent was I had to pick up the ball and run with it. I had to make something of the life that I had. I could have had a great support system and still not done anything with my life.

There were pivotal moments in my life that I talk about in the first chapter. When I was in fourth grade my favorite day of the year, I don’t know if it’s this way over in the UK, but Halloween is really popular amongst kids here.

Barry: It’s popular here, too, Sean.

Sean: Yeah, so kids dress up. And there was only one thing I really wanted in life more than anything as a child was to be able to blend in and be normal and just like everybody else, which is the opposite of what most kids want. They want to stand out and be different. So there was one day of the year that I got to do that, and that was Halloween. All the kids got dressed up and nobody stared at me. So I loved Halloween. I was in my costume, and I was rolling around in the living room. I caught my left leg on the corner of the door. I bent it back and snapped the femur bone, the large thigh bone.

I knew I had four to six weeks to heal. I wouldn’t be able to go to school and show my costume off, eat the candy, be with my friends, be at the party, trick or treat, or do all of those fun things that I look forward to every year. And I was so angry I started screaming out, ‘Why me? What did I ever do to deserve this?’

My mom came running into the room, and she knelt down beside me, Barry. And she ran her fingers through my hair to calm me down. We would play this little game every time I would break a bone, Barry. It was ‘What was your favorite part about our last vacation?’ Except, that day I was so angry I didn’t want to play any more games.

My mom saw that in my eyes. So, she formulated a question, Barry that changed the course of my life. She said, ‘Sean is this going to be a gift or a burden in your life?’

Barry: Wow, that’s an amazing question.

Sean: And, before I could tell her she was crazy, something magical happened, something mystical, something that I can’t explain with science. It was like this warm wind of wisdom just surrounded my body and I got clarity in fourth grade for the purpose to my life. The purpose to my life that I realized so young, at the tender age of 10-years-old or 11, whatever you are when you’re in fourth grade, is that everybody goes through pain. Everybody fractures. Just not with their bones. And I seemed to love my life amidst the fractures. God put me in this package to be fragile on the outside with the skeletal system so that I could help those that were fragile on the inside in their spirit. And, my purpose was to teach others how to love their life amidst their pain.

Barry: That’s amazing, Sean. You know, I’ve obviously had the pleasure of meeting you in person. It’s very moving to listen to you because you just, so many of us complain and moan about things that really are not that big a deal. And what you inspire, certainly I’m a pretty experienced guy and I think I’ve done a lot of work on myself, but you inspire an entirely different level, Sean. You are a gift, I believe, to the world today. People who are listening to this, I cannot over recommend the power that will be delivered by your book, ‘Get off your but’. It really is an exceptional book. Actually, I’ll say this about it, because I’m not a tremendous reader these days. I do most of my reading online. It’s one of the easiest books to read as well. I personally think it should become one of the greatest self help books ever in history.

I don’t know whether that was one of your intentions or even if you use the word self help, but to me it is that powerful. So, people who are listening to this podcast, or reading the transcript, I cannot, I really would not be possible to over exaggerate just how great this book is. It is just that wonderful, and that great.

What I’m going to do, Sean, is because it’s one of those books also for guys like me who don’t necessarily start at the beginning and go right way to the end, but sometimes like to pick up a book and just get a bit of inspiration. And every time I do that, I get inspiration.

I love lesson four, for instance. It’s a great example, focus your focus. And great statement, “Happiness is right in front of you.” Come on, explain that to the rest of us, Sean, please.

Sean: OK. Well, the experience of life is not dictated by what happens. It is dictated by your interpretation of what happens. This is why guys like Viktor Frankl who wrote Man’s Search for Meaning, who was tortured in the Nazi concentration camps, can still find love in the guards that were hurting him, and survived because he realized that they know not what they did. You know, it’s the individuals like Nelson Mandela who are locked up by his own people and held against his own will, and then is released with no animosity. People like Mother Teresa who live in completely impoverished nations and yet create a movement for us to help those that are less fortunate.

I mean, any one of those individuals, Martin Luther King, you know; any one of those people that we think of as going down in history of almost being iconic and mythical, like they’re almost not real. Those individuals had different interpretations than the mass populous. And I do too, because I hope to go down in history as being the human being who gave the cure to insecurity, that rid the world, or that vaccinated the world of insecurity.

I know it’s possible, Barry. It will not make everybody comfortable because if you wipe insecurity off the planet, you also upset a lot of industries.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: They will have to change their marketing methods, because, you know, I don’t even claim to say that you need my book to feel good. I claim to say that my book will be an instrument to help you find what you want in this life. But it’s not the only thing you’re going to need. It’s just a tool. And whenever somebody comes along and says that a product, whether it’s a makeup company or a car company or a clothing line, and says that they have the answer to happiness, they are bold faced lying to you. Happiness is an interpretation, the optimistic interpretation of that which happens to you.

Barry: Can you repeat that again? That’s so profound, Sean.

Sean: It is the optimistic interpretation of that which happens to you.

Barry: Thank you.

Sean: You know, when we have events take place, our ego likes to label them as good and bad really quickly, put them in boxes. And it’s so not the best way to live. The way to live is to believe that everything is good. The way to live is to believe that everything is a tool and that nothing is a weapon. I believe that I’m not delusional. I believe that evil does exist. I do believe that people do hurt others. However I also believe, from my training and my intuitive nature, that the hurt hurt and the healed heal.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: The only reason why another human being would hurt you is because they themselves are hurt.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: And this is why I get into negative relationship loops in business, in dating, in family. We keep repeating patterns because as long as you’re hurt, you’re like a cactus. Anybody that tries to touch you is going to hurt themselves. But as long as you’re healed, you’re like a glowing stone of miraculous proportion. When they reach out for you, they can’t help but be healed.

Barry: This is really great stuff. A lot of people who come to our websites are looking for inspiration, if you like, and methods and ways to make more money. But increasingly I find a lot of people — they find all of those things, but actually they’re also looking for that happiness, if you like. And a lot of the happiness doesn’t come from money. Most people already know that. But just hearing your interpretation Sean, well it’s inspiring. And I keep coming back to the book. I love this one in particular. Again, it’s only, “Compare leads to despair.” I mean, most of us go through life making these unnecessary comparisons. And you just come right out and say it. Compare leads to despair. Want to elaborate on that just a little bit, Sean?

Sean: I would, I would. Any time you compare yourself to others, you will end up miserable, and here’s why. If you compare as if you have more, then you will feel disconnected from those around you, and you will create moments of envy from those around you. You will build a superiority complex, and as we’ve seen in history, no one stays on top forever. Why would you want to be on a pedestal? First of all, you are far more vulnerable on a pedestal then you are laying down. I say that not just from the humility standpoint of try to act humble, but also any time you act better than somebody, you’re delusional. You’re not. You may know more, you may have more, but what you have could be taken away tomorrow and what you know may be obsolete or become obsolete.

So, you are no greater than any other human being, and it causes pain for yourself and others to think that you are.

Now on the flip side, it’s a lot more easy to understand this one. It’s a lot of pain to think you’re less than anyone else, because then you have the inferiority complex — that you don’t have enough. You’re not smart enough, tall enough, pretty enough, wealthy enough, cool enough — all of the enough’s. Right? The budding insecurities that I’m not… Any time you think, “But I’m not…” you’re comparing, because you’re using someone else as a benchmark.

Barry: Wow. I just keep coming back to the same subject. If people listening to this are actually wondering what’s happening, I should explain. I’m actually watching Sean on video as he speaks to me, which is really quite exciting and fun. The fortunate thing for Sean is he can’t see me on video, but I want to tell you Sean — you look awesome, my brother. You look absolutely amazing. You know what I said there about, you can pick the book anywhere and you’ll find inspiration? This is something I actually happen to know was a fact already myself, but it’s so reassuring and so good to see other people coming right out and saying it.

One of the other great lines from the book is, “Fairness is an illusion.” In fact I’ll elaborate a little bit more. You say, “Fairness is an illusion. Fairness never existed and never will. No one in life gets more or less than anyone else, we just get different stuff.”

I understand that, Sean, but I know a lot of people don’t, so come on. Let’s help people with this “but, it’s not fair” disease as you refer to it.

Sean: OK. Well I get that in the moment the “but, it’s not fair” is so real to you. I’ll give an example of the extremes. Some people say, “But it’s not fair I can’t bring my Chihuahua into this cafe.” Right? And the other extreme is, “It’s not fair I have to go into a foster home because my parents were killed in a car accident.” Those are both “but it’s not fairs”. Right? One is obviously more extreme than the other. It doesn’t matter though where in the gradation you are. “Fairness is an illusion” means… One day I was going along — to help you to understand how I came across this — and I just looked at life and then I went to a card game. I like to play cards. While I’m not much of a betting man, I like to play with my friends.

And I started to think about how I was dealt a pair of twos. And in Texas Hold ‘em, you can actually go all in and pretty much bluff the whole table that you have a great hand, and barely have anything, and everyone else folds. They may have better cards than you do.

And then I woke up and I was like — I woke up here in life and I went, “Oh my goodness. It doesn’t matter what hand you’re dealt.” It’s does matter that you stay in the game. Do you play your pair of twos when you get them, or do you complain that you didn’t get the full house or the royal flush?

It really doesn’t matter what cards you get because I’ve seen people that are gorgeous, tons of money, and shoot themselves in the face and leave their family picking up the pieces from a suicide. And you think, what happened? So it’s not what cards you’re dealt. It’s how you play and stay in the game.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: And yeah, I was dealt a hand where I’m three feet tall and in a wheelchair. But you know what? I’m out there actually seeing that as an advantage over the rest of you because when I come into a room I don’t need to do anything obnoxious or outlandish or anything to get attention. I just show up. And so, that gives me an advantage.

Barry: I can vouch for that Sean. You just show up.

Sean: When you start looking for the advantages to your condition, you really realize you weren’t given less or more. That’s what I say in the book. I talk about no one was given less or more. They were just given different stuff. If you’re given a spoon and I’m given a fork, who got a better utensil? Well, it all depends, doesn’t it? Because if I want to have cereal, you got the better utensil. But if I want to have a salad, I got a better utensil.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: So it doesn’t matter what you were given, because I promise what you were given can be used to great lengths. My family did a great job in raising me. My mom and dad taught me about adapting as one of the strongest tools that a human being has access to. And I learned because I was called disabled my whole life, and nothing could be further from the truth. Disabled in the real word means: not able. Barry, read my resume alone and you know that’s not true.

Barry: That’s not true.

Sean: So I say this as humbly as I can, I am not disabled. And I’m not delusional. I have a physical condition, but that doesn’t box me in. Disabled means this — the only disability is one’s refusal to adapt. Because if something happens to me and I adapt and you don’t, who’s getting out ahead?

Barry: Yes.

Sean: Here in the States — I don’t know what it’s like over there — but we’re having some tough economic times. And look at it this way — you’ve got to adapt. You’ve just got to adapt, and we will come out. In the Great Depression there were more millionaires made per capita than any time in the world.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: I love my mentor, who wrote the foreword. Tony Robbins says, “Some people are buried in an avalanche and others ski.”

Barry: Yes.

Sean: It’s just snow, though, you know? I look at it as… My parents taught me when I was really young. I wanted to play basketball, Barry. I don’t know if that’s big over there, but here we have the National Basketball Association — the NBA.

Barry: Yes.

Sean: And I wanted to be the NBA. And I didn’t understand why I couldn’t try out for school team, when I was in grade school. And I didn’t understand why I couldn’t grow up and be like Shaquille O’Neal or Michael Jordan. My dad set me on his lap when I was crying one day, and he said, “Sean, you can be in the NBA. I promise you. You’ll just have to adapt.” And I said, “What do you mean.” And he said, “While you may not be able to be on the court and play, you work hard enough son, you can own a team.”

Barry: Yes. The distinctions you’re making here Sean — and I’m sure everyone who’s listening to this and reading this will be making the same distinctions — are just amazing, amazing distinctions that we can all pick up. All our lives are being bettered because of this. I did want to say something to you, because you mentioned the mentor there now. This is a question I would love an answer to. You mentioned Tony Robins. He was obviously one of your mentors. You’re parents mentored you as well. Is there any particular mentors that you would like to mention?

Sean: Sure, sure. Do you have the book in front of you or near you?

Barry: I do. It’s right here.

Sean: So if you’ll open up to the front page of the endorsements, those are some of my closest mentors. So if you just want to read some of the names…

Barry: Yeah. You’ve got James Arthur Ray. I’ve actually met James once. He’s a really good guy. You’ve got Ray Dodd. You’ve got Gary Coxe. I like the title of Gary’s book, “Don’t Let Others Rent Space in Your Head.” I mean, I would by the book just for the title.

Sean: He’s a genius. He’s a genius.

Barry: That’s a great book. David DeAngelo — we know who David is.

Sean: Eben Pagan.

Barry: Eben Pagan. You’ve obviously got Tony Robbins here. We mentioned earlier on, President Clinton. Susan Jeffers as well. Ken Blanchard. Jimmy Kimmel. The list just goes on and on.

Sean: I can tell you out of all of them, the one that has been most pivotal outside of Tony Robbins and President Clinton would be Eben Pagan, who also writes by the name David DeAngelo. He was a massive part of my life, both personally and professionally. And for those who don’t know, he’s an online genius. He built up a company called Hot Topic Media that introduces online brands that make millions of dollars here in the United States. He has 80 employees, and they’re all virtual. He has no headquarters. He’s just a genius, and he’s just a caring human being.

I reference him. In the last chapter, it says, “One last thing” or “one more thing.”

Barry: Yes, that’s an awesome point you make in that “one last thing.” It’s a one page as well.

Sean: Yeah.

Barry: Why don’t we tell people what that is, because it is a very important distinction.

Sean: Sure, sure. You want to find the one line where he asks me the question and read that to them?

Barry: Indeed, yes. Eben says, “Sean, when does a person learn something?” You thought about it, and you said, “When they retain the information they set forth to absorb.” And Eben said, “Wrong. Learning doesn’t occur until a behavior has changed. As long as you know something intellectually, but you have not yet put it into practice, you haven’t learned it at all.” And actually, the reason it rings so many bells with me is because I can look at lots of things that I have learned intellectually, Sean, but I haven’t learned them at all. And I know there’s many more of us out there. So I love that.

Sean: I continue to say, at the bottom of that page, “Common sense is not common sense until it’s common practice.”

Barry: Powerful. Very, very powerful.

Sean: Mentors have had tremendous impact on my life. There’s a whole chapter just about how you can’t foster a good life without a great (what I call) pit-crew.

Barry: Yeah. I know you keep referencing that a lot, the pit crew. One other point you make, actually, lesson five, which is sort of relevant to what we’re talking about, is, “Choose your friends wisely.” Sometimes your life changes and maybe your friends have to change. Sometimes people think it’s possibly slightly arrogant to think that you have to change your friends. What’s your view on it? So how do you explain that?

Sean: Well I don’t know if on my world people see that as arrogant. I sometimes think people see it as cruel. It’s like it’s evil to leave your friends, right? And I say, keep your friends around as long as they’re having a positive impact on you. It’s one thing if your friend’s going into a down slump and you help them out. But what if they slip down and never come out? There’s a movie; I think it’s called The Guardian or something. It’s Kevin Costner and Ashton Kutcher. They were coastguards in the movie. They said, “How do you know, when you’re given a split second decision, who to save.” I just love the line. They say, “Whoever swims to us.”

Barry: Yes.

Sean: You can’t help those that don’t swim to you, who don’t want to put effort into making something of their life, of making something of a life with you, whether it’s dating, friendship, or business. You become like those you surround yourself with. I have a line that I get my clients to repeat on a regular basis, “When you’re in the environment, you become the environment.” I like playing around; what I mean by playing around is being silly, being goofy, partying, dancing. I like that crazy side to life, but it’s only about five percent of me. 95 percent of me is very stable, driven, focused, and clear and therefore my friends reflect that. If my friends were all that five percent of me, I would be getting nothing done. My body would probably be in jeopardy. My sanity would be out the window. If you surround yourself just with partiers, you will not be productive in any sense of the word.

Barry: Again, an amazing distinction, Sean. I love that one. I love it.

Thank you Sean – this is I believe our most inspiring interview ever. I really liked your “Happiness is right in front of you” comment.

** Readers may also like to check out this short video of Sean on YouTube: Sean Stephenson – Get Off Your But

** Buy The Book: Get Off Your But

Sean’s Website: http://www.timetostand.com

I look forward to your comments.

To all our Success

Michael